A Second Bite at the Apple

It seems that perhaps I was not clear when I discussed the relative virtues of the PaK36, the PTRD and the Lahti ATR.  Allow me to go back and be more systematic.

PaK36
The Panzerabwehrkanone 36 was an anti-tank gun with a 37mm caliber (1 29/64ths inch) and a 1.33m (5' 5" or 45 callibers).  It had a muzzle velocity of 762m/s and could penetrate 34mm of armor sloped at 30 degrees at 100m.  For reference, the side turret of a T34, also sloped at 30 degrees, was 52mm.

PTRD/PTRS
While there are differences in game terms between these two Soviet anti-tank rifles, there is not a difference in penetration between the two.  It had a caliber of 14.5 and its barrel length was (is, actually, there are some of these still around) just a tad over 1.3m.  It has a muzzle velocity of 1114m/s.    Some sources talk about two different types of ammunition, a steel core and a tungsten core.  The tungsten core penetrated 45mm of armor at 30 degrees, while the steel only punctured 35.

Lahti 20mm ATR
Lahti actually developed two ATR's in the run up to the Winter War.  While it was fully automatic, it couldn't penetrate any of the Soviet armor and the 13mm was deemed ineffectual and production ended after the Winter War.  The 20mm was an absolute pig, weighing over 40kg (100lbs.)  Yet, for its weight, it packed a rather light punch, with a penetration of 29mm.  It had a number of different types of ammunition, including some experimental French and Hungarian special AT rounds, but most Lahtis were rendered inoperable at the end of the war (by welding a steel bar in the chamber), so tests and combat figures are not available.

Penetration Comparisons:

 100m 500 1000 1500 2000
37L 34mm 29 22 20
R76L 98 92 80 75 65
PTRD/PTRS 35 25


Lahti 20mm ATR 28 18 10 6
.50 cal 23 13



Penetration at 10 hexes vs. a PzKwIIIc (15mm armor):
37L  = 29/15= 193%
R76L =92/15= 613%
PTRD=25/15=166%
Lahti=18/15=120%
.50 cal=13/15=87%

Now, this is a simple calculation and not truly the likelihood of destroying a PzIII with these weapons.  It is only a naked comparison of the rough chances assuming a hit in the same location using each of these weapons.  Your mileage may vary.  All of the penetration numbers were taken off of web sites and, where there were conflicts, the most authoritative were used.

ASL to Kill
There are several components to the To Kill.  A weapon has a BTK.  This is compared to an AF.  Then a random component is added to the calculation.  The random component is between 2 and 11 (a 12 is a dud.)  This Gaussian function makes it increasingly unlikely that numbers farther from 7 will be rolled.

Therefore, we can calculate the possibility of getting an effect (CH are ignored as is possible shock) on a PzKwIIID (the earliest model ASL version) is:
37L = FTK 8 = 72%
R76L = 12 = 98%
PTRD = 5 = 27%
Lahti = 5 = 27%
.50 Cal = 4 = 17%

So, comparing the ratio of penetration to armor and FTK/AF we get:
The 37L gets an ASL effect probability that is 37% of its penetration ratio.  The Lahti gets 23% of its penetration ratio.  The PTRD gets a paltry 16% of its penetration ratio.  If you examine the probability of an outright kill, it's even worse.

Hopefully, backing up and walking through things has helped make a more convincing argument.

Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Counter Values

Image
By The Numbers How were the three arguably most important numbers in ASL generated and why is there virtually no conversation about whether they are real? You can tell an ASL grognard 1 when you mention 666 and he immediately thinks of a first line US squad rather than the mark of the devil. Virtually all ASL players will know exactly what you are talking about if you give the three digits of its firepower, range and morale. Maybe less so of, for example, second line Italian squads. And, to be sure, there is a lot of overlap, for example, 447 squads. However, it is this defining characteristic that identifies units. How did these characteristics come about? Why are they so universally accepted and virtually never debated? Perhaps most importantly: Why do we go on adding squads (especially by third party producers) without laying down a basic understanding of what goes on in the composition of these factors? I propose a short exercise to help us understand...
Read more

Doesn't Add Up

Image
It's fair to say that I have a bias when it comes to ASL.  I am a Red Army man. I also like to have a little bit of fun poking the game designers over slights to the Red Army.  So why is it that the PTRD is so inferior to the Lahti ATR? The Soviet PTRD (Anti-Tank Rifle Degtyarov) was deployed in the Summer of 1941 as a cheap and quick replacement for the scads of anti-tank equipment the Red Army lost in the early phases of the war.  It used a powerful 14.5mm round that could penetrate 40mm of rolled plate armor at 100m--at 90 degrees.  Around 160,000 were produced before they became hopelessly outdated in 1942.  However, even afterward many units kept them available because they remained effective vs. halftracks and reconnaissance vehicles. This compares quite favorably to the penetration of the 37mm Pak deployed by the Wehrmacht which could penetrate 60mm of rolled plate at 100mm--again at 90 degrees. Yet, in ASL, the BTK numbers are 6 for the PTRD and 9 for th...
Read more